Turtles all the way down

The saying alludes to the mythological idea of a World Turtle that supports a flat Earth on its back.

Early variants of the saying do not always have explicit references to infinite regression (i.e., the phrase "all the way down").

The first known reference to a Hindu source is found in a letter by Jesuit Emanuel da Veiga (1549–1605), written at Chandagiri on 18 September 1599, in which the relevant passage reads:

Alii dicebant terram novem constare angulis, quibus cœlo innititur.

Alius ab his dissentiens volebat terram septem elephantis fulciri, elephantes uero ne subsiderent, super testudine pedes fixos habere.

Quærenti quis testudinis corpus firmaret, ne dilaberetur, respondere nesciuit.

"[6] In the form of "rocks all the way down", the saying dates to at least 1838, when it was printed in an unsigned anecdote in the New-York Mirror about a schoolboy and an old woman living in the woods: "The world, marm," said I, anxious to display my acquired knowledge, "is not exactly round, but resembles in shape a flattened orange; and it turns on its axis once in twenty-four hours."

"[1]Another version of the saying appeared in an 1854 transcript of remarks by preacher Joseph Frederick Berg addressed to Joseph Barker: My opponent's reasoning reminds me of the heathen, who, being asked on what the world stood, replied, "On a tortoise."

"Your theory that the sun is the centre of the solar system, and the earth is a ball which rotates around it has a very convincing ring to it, Mr. James, but it's wrong.

Not wishing to demolish this absurd little theory by bringing to bear the masses of scientific evidence he had at his command, James decided to gently dissuade his opponent by making her see some of the inadequacies of her position.

[13][11] Despite its shortcomings in clashing with modern physics, and due to its ontological extravagance, this theory seems to be metaphysically possible, assuming that space is infinite, thereby avoiding an outright contradiction.

[11][13] The metaphor is used as an example of the problem of infinite regress in epistemology to show that there is a necessary foundation to knowledge, as written by Johann Gottlieb Fichte in 1794:[16][page needed] If there is not to be any (system of human knowledge dependent upon an absolute first principle) two cases are only possible.

Our certainty is only assumed, and we can never be sure of it for a single following day.David Hume references the story in his 1779 work Dialogues Concerning Natural Religion when arguing against God as an unmoved mover:[3] How, therefore, shall we satisfy ourselves concerning the cause of that Being whom you suppose the Author of Nature, or, according to your system of Anthropomorphism, the ideal world, into which you trace the material?

By supposing it to contain the principle of its order within itself, we really assert it to be God; and the sooner we arrive at that Divine Being, so much the better.

For example, American hardcore band Every Time I Die titled a song “Turtles All the Way Down” on their 2009 album “New Junk Aesthetic”.

[17] "Gamma Goblins ('Its Turtles All The Way Down' Mix)" is a remix by Ott for the 2002 Hallucinogen album In Dub.

[18] Turtles All the Way Down is also the title of a 2017 novel by John Green about a teenage girl with obsessive–compulsive disorder.

[19] Musician Captain Beefheart used the phrase in 1975 to describe playing with Frank Zappa and the Mothers (captured on the album Bongo Fury) when he told Steve Weitzman of Rolling Stone that he "had an extreme amount of fun on this tour.

"[20] Stephen Hawking incorporates the saying into the beginning of his 1988 book A Brief History of Time:[21] A well-known scientist (some say it was Bertrand Russell) once gave a public lecture on astronomy.

"Former U.S. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia discussed his "favored version" of the saying in a footnote to his 2006 plurality opinion in Rapanos v. United States:[22] In our favored version, an Eastern guru affirms that the earth is supported on the back of a tiger.

"Microsoft Visual Studio had a gamification plug-in that awarded badges for certain programming behaviors and patterns.

One of the badges was "Turtles All the Way Down", which was awarded for writing a class with 10 or more levels of inheritance.